Sir Pup Eros:Hi. I am Sir Pup Eros Onix. That is my [inaudible 00:00:12] routine name. Onix the leather clove and my government name, my given name is Daniel Bell.
Sir Pup Eros:A.k.a, Donnie. A.k.a, Pup Eros. A.k.a, Sir Pup. A.k.a, puppy.
Interviewer:So, you’ve got a few different things going on, so your a Sir, as well as a Pup.
Sir Pup Eros:Yes.
Interviewer:How do you find that the two of those go together?
Sir Pup Eros:It just works, because my … because of the fact that I am both alpha, as well as I do have a love of dominance of my own. It … When I become submissive, or my pup side, you know. The submissive part of me is not always apparent. I guess it’s kind of unfortunate for someone who is meeting me or finding me because depending on what mood I’m in, they actually might find that first and think, “Well, that’s just all individual to you”. No. There’s actually more to this book.
Interviewer:So would you say … Is there a disconnect between your pup side and your sir side, or is it more of a continuation of the same thing.
Sir Pup Eros:It’s more of a unified part of me. You know, it’s one in the same. If I am in sir mindset, then my pup tag will actually reflect it. However, most of the time I’m actually in pup mindset. But, sir … my sir side of me, it becomes apparent when it’s actually necessary to be an adult and to be strong willed.
Interviewer:So there’s a point, say you may be at a mosh or something and you can see something’s going down …
Sir Pup Eros:And I’m not going to entertain the pup side of me, but more so the dominant side of me is going to take care of it and if I am already in pup head space. If I were at a mosh and something were to happen or if my puppy brothers were to be interrupted than the alpha part of me would actually kick in and be the leader of that situation.
Interviewer:What does being an alpha mean to you?
Sir Pup Eros:An alpha means to me, being strong. Being able to defend the pack. If necessary, being level headed to make sure my beta brothers or my omega brothers are well taken care of or well protected. And to also serve my handler to the best of my ability to be the example. That’s what being an alpha means to me.
Interviewer:It’s interesting over the claw weekend, I’ve noticed that there is a lot of free flow between roles.
Sir Pup Eros:Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Interviewer:Within your community, how has the flow between pup and sir … How does the community receive that?
Sir Pup Eros:For me, and I’m just being honest. For me, it actually makes no difference to me, how the community perceives me. Because I am my own individual self. However, in saying that, the only person that I actually do maintain myself with is actually my handler, as it should be. My … If he gives me an instruction or gives me an order, then that is gonna be carried out. It’s not a question of whether I want to or not want to. It’s a question of me being successful with whatever he asks me or just admitting the failure, which I don’t like to fail. So I guess that can be used in a positive way, in both … and a level of weakness, kind of way. I’m giving that somebody else and it, you know, if I fail, they’re like, “You know what, you really failed me. I’m disappointed”. I don’t like that.
Interviewer:Within Australia, we don’t have many African American pups. Am I even using the right terminology?
Sir Pup Eros:Yeah, yeah. You can be a bit relaxed with it. You can say black pups … because African American is like kinda …
Interviewer:Is it formal?
Sir Pup Eros:Well, not just formal but it’s a bit of a stretch, because there could be a anglo-saxon or caucasian or a white africans, who are born in native land Africa or South Africa. That come to live in America. They would also be considered Afro American.
Interviewer:Okay, I see.
Sir Pup Eros:So you could actually be a little flexible with the term and just say black.
Interviewer:Okay. So within the pup community, has there been … How do you feel as a black pup?
Sir Pup Eros:Me personally, I’m okay with it. I do know that there are differences in how black pups or pups of another nationality are received. It’s not a perception, but it’s more of how we are received. What I’m speaking of, doesn’t just insist among black pups in general. It is the … If I’m Portuguese or Hispanic, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Spanish. They … Initially, it’s very stand off-ish. So much so, that I actually took up a private census amongst other nationalities to see exactly how they felt when they were initially introduced or how has there experience been and it’s actually … it’s not of an abrasive sense, but it does come across as negative because every … the answer that I get is pups who are not of a different nationality or pups who are majority white are actually stand off-ish from others and I felt that that’s … That could be a potential problem that needs to be addressed because, as far in a pup community, we should all be more together, not this group here, this group here.
For example, in my particular pup group in New York … There’s, I would say out of … average light of 20 pups, 17 are White, 1 is Black and 2 are Hispanic. And my question … And I did pose this question. My question is, “Why no incorporate or reach out to more pups of colour or nationalities, to make the numbers more even”. The initial response I got was, “Well, that’s a question for another day”. However, that was like a year and a half ago. So far I’m still waiting on that day. In the mean time, we still have 20 or 17, 20, 25+ white pups and only 4 or 5 pups of a different nationality. That’s very uneven. I think there’s steps that we can do to help broaden that perspective.
Because instead, I get looked at as one of the senior members or senior pups in our community. They … different pups of nationalities or different pups of colour. They come to me and say, “Hey you know what, I just didn’t feel comfortable”. No one … When I came, no one reached out to me and I’m like, “Are you a pup?”. You’re not coming across to me like … “Yeah, I’m a pup. I’ve been in the pup world for like 2 years, 3 years, but I don’t really like going to pup nights, because no one talks to me”. You know, I’m in a corner by myself.
Interviewer:How could we remedy that?
Sir Pup Eros:That’s a good question. And I don’t think any one pup … It starts with one pup to get someone to pay attention, but any one pup isn’t gonna fix the problem.
Interviewer:But that doesn’t mean we can’t be part of the solution.
Sir Pup Eros:That’s right, we can … one can start a conversation and then as a group we can start to fix it, but one isn’t going to just fix the problem, because you gotta get somebody else’s interaction or their opinion of it. From that, then you can build a solution.
Interviewer:I don’t want to get heavy, but I think this is an important question. It does need to be asked, is that, within the community of gay leather men of colour. How does it sit to be called, given the history of America and what people with fair skin and blue eyes have done in the past. What does it sit like to be called a boy or what does is sit like to be called a slave?
Sir Pup Eros:Honestly, what I found in the leather community, in the gay and leather … gay and lesbian leather community, that’s so important and being around a bunch of other … When … It’s not even a question of someone of colour or a black person finding any difference or finding anything about being called a boy or a slave. If that is how they identify, then that is who they are. And that goes right across the back to pups. Because I used to have … I actually used to have this argument all the time. Someone would approach me and then say, “You’re a boy”. And I’m like, “No, I’m not a boy”. And this was actually before I even knew I was a pup or realised that everything I’ve been feeling in years gone by, were pup tendencies. Someone would attempt to identify me. “You’re a boy”. “No, I’m not a boy. That much I’m sure. I’m certain”. Then they’d say, “Why do you think you’re not”. I’m like, “because I’m too mean”. A boy is not gonna slap you in the face for saying the wrong thing. I will. And I’m like, “So I already know, I’m not a boy. I already know that I’m not gonna take instructions very well, especially if I don’t like the way it’s coming at me”. At the time, they were calling me a hybrid.
Interviewer:Fair enough. So, tell me about Onix, because I’m not familiar with this fraternity.
Sir Pup Eros:Okay.
Interviewer:Tell me more.
Sir Pup Eros:Sure. Onix is a fraternity for men of colour or … men and women of colour, excuse me. Who are into leather, kinks and fetishes. And it actually started back in 1995. There was a big … basically the same thing that’s going on in the pup community. There was a big separation of people of colour and men of leather, because majority were white men in leather. But there were also a small body of black men who were into leather. But, it was more like a majority-minority level. And so, it came to … we are just as equal as you are, because when it all comes down to it. We all have a love for the leather community. We all have our kinks and fetishes. There are no differences. And the same thing came across in the pup world. Let’s take that discussion for another day. And it was pushed behind, and our founder who’s name is Mufasa Ali. He was like, “Why are we waiting on this?”.
There were 5. Originally, there were 5. 5 was the founders and long story short that 5 became 10, became 100, became chapter New York, became chapter Mid Atlantic or chapter Washington D.C. Chapter Atlanta, chapter Chicago and now we have a chapter in California. Actually, two chapters that are in California. One is newly formed as of last year, and we’re working on the south western chapter.
Interviewer:Wow, that’s fascinating. It’s just a culture within a culture within a culture within a culture.
Sir Pup Eros:Yeah. It’s unfortunate that it’s like that but if it … To break it down, to bring it back together is what works, then that’s what we’re doing. And honestly, we’ve had some really great guys that are part of Onix that have gone on to do amazing things within the leather community. And you know, I know he doesn’t like it, but the past International Mr. Leather contest winner Ramen Pier. He’s one of our leather brothers from … one of our Onix brothers from the D.C chapter and when he took the title, we all were like, “You’re amazing!”.
Interviewer:So there was cheering from the sidelines.
Sir Pup Eros:Yeah. I was actually looking at a football game on my television set when I’m looking at YouTube and I’m getting a live feed and the television’s saying, “Oh, touchdown” and I’m like, “Ah! He won!”. And I fall to the floor (laughs).
Interviewer:Wow. What … and you know, would hope that at some day, we’re gonna have a mosh pit where everybody’s appreciated and valued.
Sir Pup Eros:That is the goal. That is the absolute goal and right now one of the things that I’m working on directly with the founders of Onix is for Onix to start recognising puppy play as more than just a fetish or more than just a kink because that is what we are. Because, initially, whenever I made proposal to them. They were like, “Well, this is a fad”. I was saying, “No. Puppy play is not a fad. This is not a flash in the pan. This is not going anywhere. We are a community that is very wide spread. We are international and we are not asking or thriving for, but we are getting our respect and it would be [inaudible 00:16:47] to try to get in on the ground floor since it is our community … our North East community at present time is actually growing, so it would be in your best interest to try to take participation in this.
That also was about a year ago and now they … Initially, they denied it. They declined the oppurtunity. But now they here at claw, I’ve had a couple of founders come back and say, “Hey you know what, I think we need to revisit this idea”.
Interviewer:I think that’s really exciting.
Sir Pup Eros:Yeah.
Interviewer:So for the minority. Are there good resources out there for them.
Sir Pup Eros:…
Interviewer:Or if there was a minority pup who wasn’t sure where to go. What would you recommend for them?
Sir Pup Eros:Well, I can only speak from my own personal experience. Majority of the time, when a minority pup is new to puppy play or new to pup world, they normally … my name is the only pass to them first as a resource. [inaudible 00:18:01] comes back, hey I just reached out to such and such and they told me to go find pup Eros. I’m like, “Okay well you’re looking at him. What do you need?”.
Interviewer:So if somebody wanted to talk to you what’s the best way to find you?
Sir Pup Eros:I’m on Facebook. I’m also on Recon. I’m also on Grindr and Scruff. Shhh (laughs). But most of the time, I can be reached via Facebook and depending on the level of seriousness of what they are asking, I would wind up giving them my telephone number, so they can have a direct contact with me or a direct report. The reason why I say it like that … If they are serious about this, it’s because I do get requests from guys who say, “make me a pup”. No one can make you a pup. Either you are or your not and it’s something that’s internal. I can’t open your head up or put a squeegee or something in your ear and say, “ok, you’re a pup now”. Like go pup out. Doesn’t work like that.
Interviewer:You gotta want it.
Sir Pup Eros:You … It is something inside of you already.
Sir Pup Eros:There’s a puppy and he’s really isolated. There’s a puppy in Afghanistan. He’s actually in the same town that they found Osama Bin Laden when they captured him. He’s extremely isolated. He’s the only pup in this town. He has his pup mask and everything, but he has to do it in secret. There are no leather clubs, there’s nowhere for him to express it. However, he gets on Facebook. He takes his courage, he gets on Facebook and goes into the puppy rooms, because that is his only outlet. And I asked him, “How did you come about puppy playing?”. He’s like, “I actually used to lick my food out of my dinner bowl. I never bothered to use utensils. It just felt awkward to me”. “Oh, yeah. You’re a puppy” (laughs).
Interviewer:Certainly, there’s leanings isn’t there? So … This has been absolutely fascinating. I really appreciate your time. Is there anything that you would like to share with the pup community while the camera’s rolling.
Sir Pup Eros:Yeah. Be yourself. Don’t let anybody put anything on you that is not you and accept your brothers. We’re all different. We’re all human. We’re all different. So, don’t let those differences, deter you from finding out what’s underneath that individual spirit.
Interviewer:That’s fantastic. Look, I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for your participation.
Sir Pup Eros:(Howls)
Sir Pup Eros:(Laughs)